zzz.i2p

Development discussions
 
Fri, 09 Aug 2019, 05:47pm #1
user1414
Lurker

Is there a decentralized group chat for i2p?
I watched i2p-messenger but it doesn't have ability to make a group chat.

Fri, 09 Aug 2019, 09:38pm #2
Qubes
I2P Legend

IRC client is the best you can get.

Fri, 09 Aug 2019, 10:41pm #3
Qubes
I2P Legend

There is Syndie or Aktie which are verified for leaks. You can go outside i2p with retroshare. A lot of software available but you need to get used to the network otherwise frustration sets in.

Sat, 10 Aug 2019, 03:42am #4
red
I2P Legend
Redrosa

I could never get Retroshare to work over I2P personally. It would be cool to have a group over it though!


-----
"Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenters, of the one who thinks differently." -Rosa Luxemburg

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." -Thomas Jefferson

Email: [email protected]
I2P-bote is currently broken. See Bio for PGP key for email.

Sun, 11 Aug 2019, 11:49am #5
Qubes
I2P Legend

There is a group on tracker2.postman.i2p download. I got it to work (from time to time) over Java with Bob but not i2pd. There are reports that it works over i2pd but not with Bob. I used the AppImage. The group is not friendly and I got rejected 3 times and quit asking after.

Tue, 13 Aug 2019, 08:54am #6
red
I2P Legend
Redrosa

Honestly I think this is what I2P is missing. Freenet has FMS, ZeroNet has ZeroTalk/ZeroMe, Tor has Dread (sort of mostly for drugs but Tor is big enough to support its own user base), but what do we have like that?

I think there are some cool forums out there, I really do. Dancing elephant forums are awesome, novaBBS is cool, and we have a bunch of cool centralized forums but honestly? I think we need an application sort of like FMS/a decentralized Usenet but for I2P, sort of like a DECENTRALIZED GROUP CHAT APPLICATION. Not Irc, something more akin to Reddit/Usenet. It's architecture would have to be resilient both to spam and abuse. I think of it like, "you want something like FMS/Reddit/I2P's-DNS-positive-gentrification rather than YouTube/4chan/ZeroNet as far as architectural distribution of content and discourse goes".

This is why I point to FMS. It has good spam resistance and you can just set trust really low/ to zero for people who abuse the system. When a lot of people start using it to talk about society/tech/politics a community is formed, and even if it's just a small one that's a beautiful thing. That builds a dedicated user-base of actual people eager to contribute good content to the network.

The one down-side of FMS is that of speed, but this is no fault of FMS. It takes time to insert messages (XML data) into Freenet and to have users on the other end have their FMS installs retrieve it from Freenet. I2P on the other hand should be relatively fast by comparison, if you can still have that same censorship/spam resistance but on I2P I think that would be a very good thing. I wonder if the two systems could even be merged somehow, perhaps using bots to create special boards to import data from each network.

I installed Syndie awhile back but all I saw were XCDC(?) comics and not a lot of actual discourse between humans. I think the concept behind it though is pretty sound. We definitely need more forums on I2P in addition to the ideal "gold standard decentralized discussion application". If Dread came to I2P or if ZeroNet started using I2P instead of/ in addition to Tor I think these would all be good things for the network. But I think we need something radically different from both these things at the same time, something unique.

What we really need on the user-end I think is a real 'hook' for getting people to use I2P. Not to explicitly endorse piracy but I think the presence of somewhat active torrent trackers on the I2P network is a really good 'hook'. If you can't afford a VPN service you can always use I2P, which is (theoretically and for most instances, practically) far more anonymous than a VPN service. That's a great selling point. I forget the percentage but I think someone mentioned the fact that something like 30% of I2P traffic is related to BitTorrent? But at the same time I don't want I2P to just be "that place" where people go to get the latest pirated tunes. I want it to be more than that.

Whether a plugin or a standalone application, I would love to see the emergence of a DECENTRALIZED FMS/Reddit/Usenet like platform for communication explicitly made for the I2P network. It could be a cypherpunk's dream.

Also I know it isn't fair for me to be like "oh we need this fancy application for I2P" when most of the developers are working super hard on I2P itself. This is just me thinking aloud.


-----
"Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenters, of the one who thinks differently." -Rosa Luxemburg

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." -Thomas Jefferson

Email: [email protected]
I2P-bote is currently broken. See Bio for PGP key for email.

Thu, 15 Aug 2019, 02:36am #7
Qubes
I2P Legend

No bad talk about the RetroShare people. They already have 9 certificates probably for a single family. Families work well in single digits so I don't feel bad about it.

Thu, 15 Aug 2019, 09:24pm #8
echelon
I2P Legend

Ok

while we are at it: prrof for leakage of syndie? Ticket number?
Same for aktie?
Never seen ANY proof of this.

So far IRC is the best option as group chat, other solutions do exist, with more or less features, reliability or latency.

echelon

Wed, 21 Aug 2019, 09:00pm #9
trw
Contributor

>I think there are some cool forums out there, I really do. Dancing elephant forums are awesome, >novaBBS is cool, and we have a bunch of cool centralized forums but honestly? I think we need an >application sort of like FMS/a decentralized Usenet but for I2P, sort of like a DECENTRALIZED GROUP >CHAT APPLICATION.

Thank you for the kind words on def and novaBBS. I am not sure what you mean by "chat" exactly, but for me a chat is more a volatile thing (although it can be logged of course), and for this I also think IRC is best (don't use it a lot myself, though). When you talk about building groups and such, it sounds more like a forum to me (including reddit).

>a decentralized Usenet but for I2P

def and novabbs are the same forum, synced by newsservers over nntp, which is run over i2p (among other protocols).
by now i think news servers are the best way to get decentralized services going, they are fast, stable and very mature. you just need to find a way to inject your content. bet you could even do a chat application with that...

cheers

trw

Wed, 21 Aug 2019, 09:17pm #10
Qubes
I2P Legend

+1